Fumbler's Café

Some may disagree with me But...I'm just going to say that I think Beyonce either:
- Is a genius, or
- Has a team of geniuses who do everything for her.

I'm not sure which is true (perhaps both), as I'm hardly knowledgeable about Beyonce's history or true creative talent. She doesn't write any songs (or does she?).
But I will say that I think the end result (either way) of what she does, is often genius as well as quite creative. That is to say, there's something about her that is a cut above (way above) most other so-called R&B divas. She's daring and a little bit crazy I think. I'll stop there, not wanting to sound like I'm elevating her to Sarah's level I'll just remind everyone of course of "Halo", and share this...a newly released alternative version of the video. It's darker, and I think better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBZjOcC1FlA

Oh, and I've seen "Telephone" with Lady Gaga. IMHO, while Gaga has some catchy moments, I actually think Beyonce sells herself a little short by doing that kinda stuff with her...

Rob.

Halo is actually the only Beyonce song I can tolerate.

Though I must give credit to the genius that is... Ryan Tedder:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvrLUpGDX30

Magellan wrote:Some may disagree with me But...I'm just going to say that I think Beyonce either:
- Is a genius, or
- Has a team of geniuses who do everything for her.

I'm not sure which is true (perhaps both), as I'm hardly knowledgeable about Beyonce's history or true creative talent. She doesn't write any songs (or does she?).

Beyonce a genius?? I mean seriously? Oh no, I have a high respect for your cool taste in music Rob and this is totally unexpected...
I once listened to Aaliyah and Destiny's Child donkey's years ago and I think that's the only time Beyonce had some sort of authenticity. I think the only time I listened to Beyonce in recent years was when she covered Jon McLaughlin's Smash Into You. Pretty nice cover though but I still don't like her

i'll stick with jessel on this one nothing besides destinys child. 'writings on the wall' album that was the only one i ever liked.

i think she has a team of geniuses lol dont kill me rob!

I won't kill But I should try to explain myself...

When I say "genius", I'm referring to the whole thing. So, not just music, but also videos, style, moves, ideas, general risk taking, and so on. But nevertheless, I do think Beyonce is a fairly serious musician.

Let me try and back it up.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyHVQT8aIBM
I can only assume you guys dislike "Single Ladies".
If you really think about it though, this is such a weird, oddly structured and unusual song, with a pretty unusual video. It's outside the bounds of normal, consumer oriented R&B or the type of stuff that say "Rihanna" will generally put out. It's quite a daring song, with a daring clip, and yet it all came together so strikingly that it became a huge hit - as well as entering the pop zeitgeist. If anybody watches the popular TV show Glee, you'll know what I mean, as there is a multi-episode story arc revolving around a gay kid joining the football team, and using the Single Ladies dance to motivate the team. Hilarious and yet completely great fun. The point is, the song and the video/dancing had ongoing impact. You don't often see that.

2. Beyonces other work is often more about experimentation. She has a great voice, and could just be another Whitney or someone else with a great voice and nothing else, but instead she experiments and takes risks. Her songs are complex and often unconventional, and so are the videos. So, here's just another example.
"Flaws And All"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1nYrVqHzJw

3. Last year I discovered an unusual band called The Dirty Projectors, mainly through the song "Stillness Is The Move" which I think is really great (and so is the clip). So definitely try this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMPF6lpM0XM
That's really creative pop to me - difficult to categorize, yet so oddly catchy.
What I didn't realize until later was that Beyonce is a fan of these guys (and these guys are fans of Beyonce). Surely an ordinary diva would be the last person you'd expect to be into (what looks like) a mix of electronics, R&B and Alpaca herding, but that's the point - Beyonce isn't typical.

And besides, what I'm saying is no revelation to anybody who follows her closely (this article talks about Beyonce and The Dirty Projectors)...

http://theamericanscene.com/2009/03/25/ ... in-america

So, Beyonce is experimental and she draws on diverse influences. This much I think we can say for sure.
Whether she's a genius, or whether it's more the credit of the team behind her, I don't know that for sure. But the end results are pretty interesting so far. Don't be fooled by a few songs that seem conventional or just have straight up sexy videos. There's a level of experimentation going on which I think is pretty interesting.

I could also argue that Beyonce's association with Gaga is a nod of respect to Gaga, particularly in the visual stakes (videos, costumes, image etc). The trouble with this though is (and the reason I said this before) Gaga is definitely visually experimental, but her songs are actually quite plain, simple and middle-of-the-road pop compared to Beyonce's. I think Gaga is well below her overall, and Beyonce probably shouldn't do any more duets or concept videos with her. Much better in the long term to stay just-left-of-mainstream, and keep building credibility, and let Gaga be the one who shoulders the burden of being "biggest pop star" in the world thanks to her likeable, standard pop music.

Rob.

Yeah, I'm aware that when you said "genius", you're referring to the whole package and not just a single aspect or two.

I won't (well, actually I can't) deny she has killer vocals but I'm not exactly the type who buy into the "hitting-the-high-notes = great singing" equation. Nor am I the type who easily falls for special effects. But don't get me wrong, I don't really despise Beyonce at all. God knows I had my share of grooving to Destiny's Child among many other RnB acts during my bar-hopping/clubbing days when I was in college, which I'm quite happy to say are finally over. It's just that nowadays she doesn't do anything that I can dig musically. Also, I don't see any difference between her and Rihanna and if there is, then I surely missed it.

Btw, I'm familiar with the Dirty Projectors but I didn't know Beyonce is a fan and vice versa. That band is amazingly weird and I think I can sense something like traditional Tibetan music influences in their work. Though I haven't heard much of them to express a more coherent opinion.

And finally, to be fair enough, I'd pick Beyonce any day over Lady Gaga. I think Gaga relies too much on visual effects, shock value, and decades-old avant garde fashion statement; and she's also too manufactured. Maybe I'm missing something but I just don't see what's so unique about her. Even Britney Spears can sing her songs to perfection. Vocalwise, Beyonce's loads better, even "artistically" and "musically".